Today, bookpleasures.com is proud to engage with Janet Kintner, the author of  A Judge's Tale: A Trailblazer Fights for Her Place on the Bench. 

This inspiring memoir captures Janet's remarkable journey as one of the first female trial lawyers in the 1960s and 70s, and her significant role as the third female judge in San Diego and, notably, the youngest judge in California at just 31 years old.

Janet's background in Fairborn, Ohio, and later in Tucson, Arizona, was shaped by early experiences that included overcoming trauma. 

These formative moments sparked her lifelong commitment to justice, a central theme throughout her story.

Her narrative highlights the challenges women faced in a male-dominated legal system, including sexism and exclusion from professional opportunities. 

In the midst of a demanding 1978 judicial election campaign, Janet balanced the responsibilities of being pregnant with her second child. 

This pivotal period tested her strength as she managed motherhood, full-time judicial responsibilities, and a high-stakes campaign. Despite the hurdles, she demonstrated remarkable resilience and perseverance.

Beyond her courtroom achievements, Janet has emerged as a dedicated advocate for gender equality. Her involvement with organizations such as the Lawyers Club and the National Association of Women Judges reflects her commitment to promoting a more equitable legal landscape. 

Moreover, Janet's contributions to legal scholarship and her mentorship of fellow judges emphasize her desire to uplift those around her. 

She also actively champions causes, such as improving the lives of individuals affected by type 1 diabetes, further demonstrating her dedication to making a positive impact.

Norm: Good day, Janet, and thank you for joining us for this insightful discussion.

Your memoir begins during a crucial judicial election campaign while you were pregnant. How did that experience influence your storytelling? Was the process of revisiting such an intense period both personally and professionally challenging?

Photo by Jennifer Anderson

Janet: Being pregnant was front and center for me during my election campaign, literally as well as metaphorically. It was 1978, and I had to make constant in-person campaign appearances. 

There was no internet, so that's how we did it then. I was obviously seven months pregnant when the over five-month-long campaign started, so people noticed it immediately. 

Many people commented on my pregnancy, including one male opponent. Almost all the candidates in that year's election were men, and I never saw another pregnant woman during the entire campaign. I definitely stood out and felt different.

Writing the story was easy. That was a part of my life that I remembered well. It was an intense and pivotal time because I was fighting to keep my job while carrying my second child. 

The words just flowed. But in recalling and describing that time, I remembered the extreme stress I felt. It was important not to lose the election and to have a healthy baby.

Many friends thought I should downplay the fact that I was a woman because there were very few women in business, government, law enforcement, and the courts then. 

Fewer than 5% of judges were women. But it's impossible to downplay the fact that I'm a woman when I'm so obviously pregnant. And while my pregnancy made my campaign more difficult by all accounts, 

I felt wonderful to be carrying this healthy child inside me that we wanted so much. So being pregnant was a wonderful thing — except for the campaign.

 I worried that the stress I was suffering from the campaign would harm my baby, especially after my doctor warned me to avoid stress. That made me feel guilty, but I wouldn't give up either the election or my baby. 

Writing about this time was personally difficult and emotional for several reasons. When I wrote it, all these feelings came back. 

Norm: You candidly address traumatic experiences from your early life, including sexual assault. How did sharing these events affect you during the writing process, and how do you believe they shaped your passion for justice?

Janet: It was challenging to write about some of these events because they are so personal and terrifying, but I heard many similar stories when I was a judge. I knew my story was not unique. 

Things like that have happened to many wonderful people who suffered terribly. By telling my story, others will feel less alone, better understood, and know it is not their fault. I felt compelled to include these events in my book. 

Being a victim of sexual assault, especially where I did not receive justice, enormously motivated me to become a lawyer and try to help others who have been victims of crime to obtain justice. 

That was huge in my life. It did shape my passion for justice.

Norm: The legal environment of the 1960s and 70s was predominantly male-dominated and frequently challenging for women. How did you navigate issues of sexism and condescension during law school and your early career? 

Were there pivotal moments or mentors who helped you overcome these obstacles? 

Janet: I tried to work with the people who were running legal institutions. I got along with many men in law school, including some professors and the administration. As a lawyer, I worked well with many of the men who were leaders of the legal community and the courts. 

Usually, the younger men had an easier time accepting women. Other women lawyers of the time were much like me. We were trying to work with them from within to change the institutions so they would accept women. 

I tried to point out sexism in a humorous way and get them to change, and that often worked. Many of the men were open to us and were willing to accept us once they got to know us and what we had to offer. 

Other men were more difficult, and sometimes I argued openly with them. Sometimes it was hopeless, and it was apparent they would never change. They retired and died without ever accepting women as equals. 

I remember the first female judge in my county (whom I knew) had given up trying to be treated equally many times in the 1950s and '60s and said, "That was just the way it was." Sometimes we just had to give it more time for things to change. 

Talking with other female lawyers and judges was extremely important. We gave each other moral support and ideas for coping with challenges. 

That is why we formed groups like the Lawyers Club of San Diego, California Women Lawyers, the National Association of Women Judges, and the International Association of Women Judges.

Norm: You gained the nickname "the topless prosecutor" following your success in consumer fraud cases. How did you cultivate your prosecutorial style and reputation, and do you think this nickname was beneficial or detrimental to your career?

Janet: Nobody heard about the name "the topless prosecutor" except the two excellent, prominent daily newspaper reporters who gave me that name and me. They were being funny when they quietly told me that in the courthouse hall. 

They were the primary source of my reputation and fame because they wrote about almost all of my consumer fraud cases. Other journalists also wrote about my cases and speeches. 

Still, these two, who were assigned to the courthouse, had followed me more closely than any of the others ever since I first became a lawyer. In that era, newspapers were the primary source of news, especially for court cases. 

Consumer fraud was my passion as a lawyer. I loved helping protect victims of scams, which financially ruined many people. I worked very hard, filed many meritorious cases, and never lost a consumer fraud case. That built my reputation. 

Norm: Governor Jerry Brown appointed you as a judge while you were seven months pregnant, which was quite rare. How did you manage being a young, pregnant judge alongside the pressures of your responsibilities? 

Did you encounter specific challenges in the courtroom or with your colleagues related to this?

Janet: One of the great things about being a judge is you wear a big, billowing black robe that makes it difficult to be certain if a judge is pregnant or not until the very end. So, many people who only saw me in my courtroom were unaware that I was pregnant. 

For some lawyers, the last time they saw me before my appointment, I was pregnant, and they seemed to keep thinking of me as being pregnant. Even more than nine months later.  

 I didn't know of any other pregnant women judges at that time, and there were very few women judges at all. So I was definitely different. The difficulty was that some men were offended that I, a young, pregnant woman, had been appointed instead of them. 

They were used to men being appointed, and some didn't like the change. And some didn't like the governor's political party, which appointed me. So some people were bothered by it. But I just did my job. 

My pregnancy didn't interfere with that. I was always able to work, and I enjoyed feeling my baby moving around inside me. The older male judges didn't talk about my pregnancy. It was simply not a topic of conversation. 

Norm: The 1978 election campaign was marked by aggressive attacks from opponents and even a smear campaign. How did you stay true to your values and maintain focus during such a tumultuous time? 

What insights about campaigning and public perception would you share with women aspiring to run for office today?

Janet: I knew instinctively not to personally attack my major opponent, like he was doing to me. I had an obligation as a judge to be ethical and above the fray. A judicial temperament requires me to be calm, fair, and tell the truth. 

He accused me of things I didn't do, and he lied. I had to make that clear. He sounded desperate. Still, it was challenging to repeatedly defend myself against journalists who called to share their latest accusations. I just took one day at a time. 

When I made my many personal appearances and gave speeches, people wanted to see for themselves that I had what it took to be a strong, competent, and fair judge. They tried to ask questions and learn more about me. I was myself. 

They turned into my best supporters. 

We need to emphasize our strengths, and when the voters get to know us, we should do well. Although a woman has never been elected president, on other levels, including judicial elections, women have won many times since my election. 

Women have proven themselves to be as competent and qualified as men —to serve as judges as well as hold other elected positions. It is noble to dedicate ourselves to a life of public service and improving the lives of others, and when the public understands that, they will support us.  

Norm: You wrote about the delicate balance between full-time judicial duties and motherhood during your pregnancy. How did you navigate these competing demands, both emotionally and practically? 

What advice would you offer to working mothers in high-pressure careers today?

Janet: I constantly struggled over the balance between the two. When I was working, I felt guilty for not being with my kids. And sometimes, when I was with my kids, I felt guilty for not working, even though I had a lot of research to do to prepare for the next day of work. 

But I set up guidelines and stuck to them. That meant that, after work and before my children went to bed, I spent my time totally focused on my kids. I did the research and reading from work after my children went to bed. 

I had to do my job and focus entirely on it while I was working. The parties deserved nothing less than my total attention.

Emotionally, it wasn't easy to maintain that balance. I sometimes suffered horribly. Sometimes, I had guilt that oozed out of my pores and threatened to suffocate me. But it was worth it to have a family. 

My children have brought and continue to bring me great joy, like they will when we all get together at my house this Christmas. 

Some flexibility in my schedule was essential. There were times when I had to be with my children, for example, to deal with health problems that my sitter couldn't handle. Those were rare, but they happened, and I needed an understanding supervisor as we all do. 

There were times I had to work late, and those more than made up for the times I had to leave early. It really helps to have supervisors who are understanding and flexible when those rare times occur. 

Our supervisor was the Presiding Judge. So, if you have a choice, try to get—and be-- that kind of supervisor. When we work hard and take on any job we are asked to do, I find supervisors are usually more willing to work with us. 

Also, when choosing a partner, look for someone who will help you take care of your children. That takes a lot of pressure off you and reduces the guilt. I would have loved to have that, but fifty years ago, I didn't have it. 

Norm: You became the youngest judge in California at age 31. How did your age, in conjunction with your gender, shape the challenges you faced? Did you feel increased pressure to prove yourself because of your youth?

Janet: Being an obviously pregnant young woman when I was appointed made it more challenging because of how some people felt about gender, youth, and pregnancy. 

It would have been easier if I were not so young. Still, other women lawyers and I felt very strongly that we needed more women judges, and that is why I agreed to submit my name. 

There was only one other female judge (and about a hundred male judges) in the whole county when I did. Women lawyers, including me, had stories of being disrespected by some judges. 

I did feel an increased pressure to prove myself as a judge, both because of my youth and my gender. I felt like I had to be perfect, which is impossible. That is a familiar feeling among women breaking into a male-dominated field. 

Norm: Perseverance is a recurring theme in your memoir. Can you identify a moment when you considered giving up? What motivated you to keep going during those difficult times?

Janet: One time, my only typewriter broke in the middle of the three-day Arizona Bar Exam, which was timed and strictly monitored. I had paid a considerable price to take that exam, and nobody could read my writing. 

I considered giving up. But then I thought, no, I don't give up. I don't even know what that would look like, so I began problem-solving. How I did it is in my book. 

Another time was when dozens of employers in San Diego refused to hire me or any other female lawyer in 1968. Just because we were women, and they told us that. But I figured this was my dream, my goal. 

Somebody somewhere eventually would hire me. I kept asking everybody I could find about jobs. I wouldn't give up. And I eventually got a job I loved. I think it was something about me—and other people like me. 

I have always been determined, whether for my clients or for me when I was a lawyer. And it has paid off. 

Norm: Your memoir effectively contrasts your ethical approach with the unethical tactics used by your opponents, offering reassurance about the integrity of the legal system. 

Throughout your career, have you witnessed changes in ethical standards within the judiciary?

Janet:  I was a member of our California Judges Association Judicial Ethics Committee beginning in 1985, so I was very much aware of our standards of ethics in California. 

Our committee answered judges' inquiries about what constituted a violation of the ethics rules. 

It was amazing how many issues arose, such as whether certain words or conduct by judges, both inside and outside the courtroom, would violate the rule requiring judges to be, and appear to be, fair and impartial. 

Also, there were issues over when judges should disqualify themselves and when there is a conflict of interest. I have seen a few ethics changes, but they have been minor in California. 

For example, the California Ethics rules were changed after I ran to allow judges to oppose and endorse candidates for judicial positions. However, judges still cannot endorse for non-judicial positions.

The most significant ethics change I have witnessed is the US Supreme Court, which had no written ethics rules before, finally adopting some in 2023 after news articles about US Supreme Court justices accepting gifts and doing things that most state court judges can't. 

However, at the time of this writing, there is still no enforcement mechanism in place. This is in contrast to all the states that have had written rules of ethics, many modelled after the American Bar Association's Model Code of Judicial Conduct, and that have enforcement bodies to enforce their ethical rules. 

Norm: How did your personal relationships, particularly with your first husband, Chuck, shape your career and help you cope with the pressures of your profession? In hindsight, what role does partnership play in supporting women's advancement in traditionally male-dominated fields?

Janet: It is essential to have the support of someone close to you, like a spouse or partner, or a really good friend. Since I started practicing law, I have known Chuck supported my career, even though he was often away. 

Chuck worked about an hour and a half away, in another county, and he was gone all weekdays, including evenings and many times all night. So I often was alone, but when I had my election, Chuck stepped up and did what I needed. 

When women are bucking the status quo and trying to break into a field dominated by men, as I was, we need support. It doesn't have to be a spouse, and much of my support came from friends and family. 

But when I had my election in 1978, the biggest challenge of my career, fortunately for me, I had Chuck to help. And he gave the campaign the high priority it needed. I didn't have anyone else willing or able to do that. 

As I explained in my book, Chuck played a massive role in my campaign; most importantly, he helped with the finances and was in charge of the radio ads, our primary tool for getting our message out. 

I knew I could rely on him to get the job done. I cannot imagine trying to do that alone, mainly because my election was an unusually nasty and time-consuming one, and I worked full-time and gave birth to my second child in the middle of the campaign. 

Throughout my career as a lawyer, I needed help, and I got it from more experienced lawyers. They all generously gave of their time to help me learn how to be a good lawyer, and I did the same for others. 

But my need for help with my career pales in comparison to my need for help once I had children. I was a judge then. It was clear that I could not have my children with me at work. 

So when I was working and campaigning, I needed someone to look after my children. And not just anyone; I needed someone good with children and trustworthy. All working mothers go through this. 

Whenever I lost my babysitter, which was usually every year or two, my life came to a screeching halt, and I had to find a replacement. That was often the most challenging thing I had to do. 

I could find no good agencies to help and no reliable day care centers for little ones then. I had to place ads in the newspaper in that pre-Internet era and provide my home phone number. 

My answering machine recorded their information. I interviewed and checked references. It was time-consuming and frustrating, but it worked.

Chuck took care of our children many nights during my six-month-long campaign when I was giving speeches. After that, he came home to stay with our children once a month while I was at my bridge group, but aside from that, I was in charge of childcare. 

Chuck always left all of the childcare arrangements and medical care for our children up to me. He did not take them to school, the doctor, or help find a sitter. I did all of that. It was traditional, and the way it had been done before women worked outside the home. 

But I sure would have appreciated more help. My two sons have grown up to be much more helpful with their children, and I'm proud of them for that. 

Norm: Where can our readers find more information about you and your memoir,  A Judge's Tale: A Trailblazer Fights for Her Place on the Bench?

Janet: My Website   

A Judge's Tale | Book by Janet Kintner | Official Publisher Page | Simon & Schuster 

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Norm: As we conclude our discussion, now that you are living between Southern California and Canada in your retirement years, what key message do you hope resonates with today's readers, particularly young women pursuing a career in law? 

Are you considering any future projects?

Janet: For young women, figure out what your passion is. Some of my friends who went into law wanted to make a lot of money and did. But I wanted to help people, especially those who needed help and couldn't afford regular lawyers' fees.  

I was able to do that through Legal Aid in San Diego, which helps low-income people in civil cases; as a prosecutor; and in private practice, where I never turned down a valid case, even if people couldn't afford to pay me. 

By writing my book, I wanted to share how important it is for women to be in positions of power. When I was a victim of crime in the 1960s, there were practically no women in the police department, the prosecutors' office, or the courts. 

Men were making all the decisions, and I'm sure many women were not being protected, just like I wasn't. We cannot become complacent about women being in positions of power. There are groups in the United States opposed to that. 

We must understand how important this is and ensure women maintain a seat at the table where decisions about justice are made. 

For future projects, I plan to write either a humorous work of fiction or a sequel about my life after 1978. Or both. 

The nice thing about writing is I can carry my laptop back and forth between Canada and the US and write wherever I am. Regardless of where I am, I want to give my readers joy, inspiration, and a feeling of connectedness.  

Norm: Thanks once again and good luck with all of your future endeavors